EMDR Remedy and Psychological Well being Assist with Susie Morgan, LMFT, BCETS

Betty Rocker (00:15):

What’s up, Rockstars Coach Betty Rocker right here, and I’m actually glad you might be right here too. In some unspecified time in the future, you might have heard me discuss a sort of remedy that I used known as EMDR, which stands for Eye Motion Desensitization and Reprocessing. And it’s actually recognized for its capability to deal with PTSD and traumatic occasions. There’s a variety of totally different sorts of therapeutic practices on the market, and relating to our psychological well being, it’s actually necessary to discover a good match and the proper instruments for addressing our particular person issues so we are able to stay extra full and significant lives. After going via a extremely tough interval of my very own life and being identified with anxiousness and melancholy, one of many suggestions I used to be given was to hunt EMDR remedy.

(01:02)
I’ll share a bit extra about my expertise with it on the present right now as a result of the individual I’ve introduced to speak to us is the wonderful therapist I labored with, and I’m actually excited so that you can meet her. She actually helped me change my mind and my life. Susie Morgan is a licensed marriage and household therapist, board licensed skilled in trauma stress, and an authorized EMDR therapist specializing within the remedy of advanced PTSD and attachment trauma. Along with her apply, she’s additionally an E-M-D-R-I-A accredited guide and coach, and the founding father of the Precision EMDR Academy, a boutique coaching company that equips and mentors clinicians to offer secure and efficient EMDR remedy. She is devoted to offering each a excessive degree of care in her personal therapeutic apply and advancing the excellence within the area of EMDR. I felt that she was uniquely outfitted to share extra about EMDR with us and provide you with a way of what it’s used for, who would possibly profit from it, and what sort of issues it treats, and discover and vet a fantastic practitioner. So be a part of me in welcoming her to the present. Welcome, Susie. It’s so nice to have you ever right here with me. Thanks a lot for being right here.

Susie Morgan (02:22):

Thanks for having me. That is completely my honor, so thanks.

Betty Rocker (02:26):

Oh my gosh. Effectively, I’ve been so excited to have a dialog about EMDR so that folks would study it, individuals who’ve possibly heard about it could get extra conversant in it, as a result of I really feel prefer it’s type of, it’s a more recent apply relating to the therapeutic arts within the higher scheme of remedy. Is that right?

Susie Morgan (02:51):

Sure and no, as a result of that’s somewhat little bit of a false impression as a result of it’s actually been round since 1987. And so what which means is that despite the fact that it’s not as outdated as clearly like Freudian remedy and people actually conventional fashions or cognitive behavioral, it, it isn’t new. And so it’s, it really has had loads of time to truly develop out an extremely sturdy, like encyclopedia of analysis, not solely displaying that it treats PTSD, but additionally a spread of different problems that folks can current with. And so it’s really a false impression that it’s new, it’s simply newer that folks find out about it and

Betty Rocker (03:34):

Newer that folks find out about it. Effectively, would possibly, like I ought to ask the primary query, which is, what does EMDR stand for and what does it particularly deal with? As a result of I feel that’s actually attention-grabbing. It’s, it’s very distinctive within the therapeutic arts.

Susie Morgan (03:50):

Okay. So the, the inventor of EMDR would’ve renamed it. She mentioned if she had had an opportunity, however by the point it was extra well-known and being researched, she was like, okay, that is what it’s known as. So it stands for eye motion desensitization and reprocessing. And so let me break that down. So it makes use of eye motion. Historically, you need to use different means to permit for the, the mind to mainly replicate what occurs throughout REM sleep, we expect as a way to really reconsolidate recollections. And so you need to use different duties, different bilateral kinds of motion with, with tactile and even tones as a way to create this impact. In order that’s the attention motion a part of it. It’s utilizing this particular bilateral, units of actions as a way to stimulate the mind to enter right into a reminiscence reconsolidation mode. After which the desensitization and reprocessing are the 2 issues that it’s doing.

(04:53)
What it’s doing is it’s taking the activation of those recollections and desensitizing that. So taking, taking the cost out of it, taking that chunk out of the reminiscence, after which it’s reprocessing it. So it’s really connecting it as much as adaptive data and adaptive data. Is that this actuality primarily based or soothing or, optimistic data that claims it’s over and actually undoes the training and connects it as much as what really the mind already is aware of. However when a reminiscence is maladaptively saved, it doesn’t soak up the entire context of issues. It doesn’t soak up the truth that issues are over or that actually, despite the fact that you understand it’s true, prefer it doesn’t really feel true. So it it, it connects all that up.

Betty Rocker (05:39):

What’s the eye motion a part of eye motion desensitization reprocessing? Is your eye simply going backwards and forwards otherwise you snapping your fingers? What’s taking place? Is there lights?

Susie Morgan (05:49):

So over time, devices have been invented and since mainly the secret’s you are attempting to have that consumer’s eyes shuttle throughout the sphere division as quickly as they’ll bodily tolerate whereas holding the reminiscence materials in thoughts. And so you’ll be able to have somebody, holding a, you understand, a set of buzzers of their fingers that gentle up they usually can look backwards and forwards between the lights. The buzzing can also be another that enables there to be a tactile degree of stimulation for that backwards and forwards in order that, individuals who can’t use their eyes for this course of really can have an efficient type of bilateral stimulation. There are eye, like, like eye motion machines the place mainly you’ll be able to, you’ll be able to observe a lightweight bar backwards and forwards, or there’s like these packing containers you’ll be able to maintain that can trigger your lights to return, trigger your eyes to shuttle as you observe the lights.

(06:49)
There are pc applications which have somewhat bouncing ball that shuttle, however backside line is you don’t want machines. You simply want some mechanism for eyes to shuttle. So I do, I do EMDR on-line on a regular basis now with none equipment by any means, with none particular applications. I simply have individuals pinching their fingers backwards and forwards with their eyes held a few shoulder width aside. They observe their very own pinches, and that produces the efficient eye motion. However mainly what we’ve proven in analysis is that eye motion is the simplest option to create the reminiscence reconsolidation course of that we’re on the lookout for. Nonetheless, these different strategies tactile and, an auditory can produce an analogous degree, however there does appear to be greater than, extra at play than simply that your eyes are going backwards and forwards. There may be, there’s the likelihood that that’s, activating a rem like mechanism of sleep.

(07:48)
We see chemical, chemical, comparable chemical compounds produced within the mind, comparable brainwaves. It additionally seems that work taxing working reminiscence is among the the explanation why it’s efficient. It’s not as comfy, it’s not as enjoyable to have to truly like, like do a flowery patterning together with your fingers whilst you have the buzzing or matching your eye actions together with your pinches. However that truly causes the tough reminiscence materials to metabolize quicker. However should you overtax working reminiscence, you lower on that reprocessing portion. So it’s, there’s form of a candy spot, and it’s totally different for every individual on how a lot, how onerous we wish them to work whereas they’re doing the bilateral processing.

Betty Rocker (08:35):

What’s a, what’s an excellent instance of a maladaptive reminiscence that somebody may need that was not connecting? Proper? Or what occurs in, in remedy?

Susie Morgan (08:46):

So an instance of a, a trauma reminiscence could be a canine chunk. So somewhat lady, she’s in her entrance yard, A canine comes by, bites her. There’s two methods the mind can go along with that. One we’d name maladaptive. One we’d name adaptive. And so it, it, and the distinction is how does the reminiscence find yourself being saved by the mind, which components of the mind are concerned? And so if it’s maladaptively saved, it will get at, it will get saved in nearly like this authentic type. Like all the, the visible sight sounds feels of that second are similar to encapsulated in time. And so she may be 30 years outdated and it feels prefer it occurred yesterday when she thinks of it. So it, it shops sizzling within the visible cortex of the mind, the emotional cortex of the mind. And the attention-grabbing factor is the logical components of the mind that claims it’s over, you’re secure now. That type of factor. The, that complete piece of the mind doesn’t even come on-line. So it’s all sight sounds, feels, and feelings, and it’s sizzling and it’s saved that means relatively than it’s over, I’m secure. It occurred a very long time in the past. Now I do know that, you understand, it is best to, you understand, form of just remember to don’t simply pet a canine. You don’t know , that form of factor,

Betty Rocker (10:10):

Proper? So, so the expertise that an individual would have who had these two totally different storages of the reminiscence is one little lady could be afraid of canine eternally as a result of that reminiscence’s all the time burning shiny and burning sizzling with all of that saved stuff the place the opposite little lady who’s,  it’s not saved in a unfavorable means. She simply is extra cautious in approaching canine the place the opposite lady could be afraid to strategy a canine in that sense. Yeah. So the, the trauma impacts how we behave in several methods shifting ahead is what you’re saying

Susie Morgan (10:40):

In that type of adaptive versus maladaptive piece. Adaptive is, I’m secure now on a really fundamental degree and I can hold myself secure now, or it’s, I’m not secure. And so the physique goes in a struggle or flight, if something reminds the nervous system of that incident. And there’s really three kinds of trauma I consider that basically, actually matter. And so it’s very a lot increasing out the definition of the phrase in a, in a means that I feel is essential as a result of there’s so many individuals who say, nicely, I don’t have trauma. I wasn’t at conflict, I wasn’t assaulted, that form of factor. So, so EMDR remedy isn’t for me or considering of myself as having trauma that I would want to reprocess via that could possibly be affecting my signs.  That simply doesn’t, that simply doesn’t come of their conceptualization

Betty Rocker (11:30):

Positive.

Susie Morgan (11:31):

Of what they’re coping with, and due to this fact it stops them from getting assist they may get. So the three kinds of trauma that I feel are actually necessary to grasp are that massive T trauma. In order that’s classically what we perceive as, yeah, blood hearth conflict assault, that’s what that’s conceptualized as. Then you may have, little t traumas or what are hostile life occasions. And these are issues that typically individuals, you understand, another person would possibly take a look at that and be like, nicely, that’s no massive deal. So that is like bullying. Or it’s issues like, you understand, somebody, somebody being a jerk at work or somebody calling you a reputation on the playground or your sister leaving you out, like that form of factor. So, so these are your little, little to your hostile life occasions. However really what’s much more crucial, I feel, is knowing advanced with advanced, developmental trauma, which is extra frequent than you would possibly suppose, is when early attachment wants aren’t met.

(12:32)
And, or then if there’s additionally some abuse or issues like that in these early years that it, that’s actually really what can create the longest and most pervasive points with anxiousness, melancholy, all types of issues that we simply consider like, oh, these are psychological well being points, when really, if we return, we’re wanting on the absence of attunement and even the absence of play, which is attention-grabbing. The absence of safety. This, you understand, simply not having the steerage you want, like shave your legs, take care of a, a bully peer. Like all of those totally different items actually make a distinction within the capability of that individual’s nervous system to resist the stressors that can come. And so oftentimes when these type of developmental early attachment wants aren’t met, then you may have extra of a, of a susceptibility for the mind to maladaptively maintain these later occasions. So it’s, it’s actually difficult.

Betty Rocker (13:38):

Effectively, not, I feel you defined it superbly in order that the three varieties, there’s the massive Ts, there’s the, the little ts, that are, what did you name them? Antagonistic occasions. After which there’s additionally the attachment points. And, and attachment principle is completely fascinating. I do not forget that you beneficial the e book connected to me years in the past, and it was so useful in a, a, giving me a framework of understanding the distinction between the, anxious avoidant and the safe attachment kinds, that are these three attachment kinds. And simply saying them, it, it makes a lot sense why anxious and avoidant could be so polarized should you guys take into consideration that. It’s so fascinating. After which how will we create safety, proper? And, and totally different features of our life. However, that was, that was actually attention-grabbing that that comes into play in, in what’s handled inside the scope of EMDR. We wanna speak somewhat bit extra about that. ’trigger I feel that’s so attention-grabbing.

Susie Morgan (14:41):

Yeah, I’d like to as a result of it’s, it’s a lot what is available in to the workplace when individuals are saying, my relationships are simply not working mm-hmm . Or I hold moving into the identical sort of type of damaging dynamic with my companions. Mm. And so, so what occurs when these early attachment wants aren’t met is somewhat nervous system is so good and so clever to type of learn the room of the connection with their caregivers, they usually really can learn the room in another way with totally different caregivers relying on what, what will likely be best for his or her must be met. And, and to contextualize this, little mammals can’t survive with out their caregivers attunement to them or their, not attunement, however with out them assembly their wants. Principally. Like little mammals die if their caregiver form of leaves them by the facet of the street with out issues. And so people are not any totally different.

(15:40)
And so an toddler or a toddler or issues like that can understand if I cry extra, you come, if I cry much less, you don’t get so mad at me. That type of factor. Mm-hmm. And so what finally ends up taking place whenever you simply take a look at anxious versus avoidant anxious is, I cry extra, you’ll come mm-hmm. Avoidant is, I cry much less, I’m extra more likely to get my wants met, I’m safer right here. After which you may have these very unhappy conditions the place the, the early surroundings is so harsh and is so each neglectful of those attachment wants in addition to damaging via abuse or issues like that, that the nervous system will be taught. Like, okay, generally I cry louder, generally I shut down. Prefer it’s this complete like, like dance of simply to attempt to get wants met in no matter little tiny means that they’ll. And the factor is, as soon as the mind locks in on this stuff, similar to trauma recollections, as soon as the mind locks in on these attachments methods or these diversifications to their en their early surroundings ring retains doing the identical factor over and over and over, whether or not or not the surroundings modifications.

(16:49)
And finally the saddest half that I see in my, in my workplace is little nervous techniques as they develop up, select most naturally what looks like residence. And they also’ll repeat what they, they went via after they have been small, considering they’re doing one thing totally different, however then touchdown in the identical sort of of relationship. After which, after which concluding, I’m the issue. It’s as a result of I’m nugatory, I’m unlovable, or regardless of the case could be. When finally, like that’s not the case. It’s actually simply that their nervous system doesn’t know do one thing totally different. In order that’s the actually cool stuff we are able to do with superior expertise with EMDR remedy is not only resolve these recollections. Like we don’t simply reprocess recollections. We really can really restore and restore the attachment system. So it’s, it’s fairly magic what’s attainable and

Betty Rocker (17:44):

All of that, whether or not you might be treating trauma, reminiscence or attachment that’s gotten, it’s, I’m simply picturing like a rug that obtained all bunched up and Proper. It’s not, it’s not easy, whether or not you’re treating any of these various things, the, the first end result is a way of safety, a way of security within the self, a way of self that’s mm-hmm . Secure and complete and, and sufficient, proper. For therefore many people who, who, you understand, search remedy. One factor that I’ve been studying loads recently, and it’s so unusual as a result of we have been gonna have this dialog and I wished to ask you about it. How do we all know that the remedy that we’re doing is true for us? That’s undoubtedly a query. And, and two, like, why is it that there’s a lot remedy that simply doesn’t appear to work, I assume like, yeah, what’s happening with that?

Susie Morgan (18:41):

So a variety of the explanation why remedy doesn’t work is as a result of it doesn’t really change the way in which the nervous system is working. And so what you’re doing is you’re utilizing actually what, what may be actually highly effective instruments, however it’s extra like manually shifting a automobile relatively than having driving an automated, mainly the place you must use these expertise as a way to shift the mind into that adaptive functioning. So one of many issues that I feel is admittedly, actually necessary for, for EMDR therapists to grasp do, and it hasn’t been historically skilled, however is to essentially have the ability to map out what are the first trauma reminiscence networks, the methods the mind has clustered collectively numerous experiences, after which is working out of those maladaptive beliefs. So that you’ll have that canine chunk, however then now mother is, you understand, mother is late choosing you up from daycare, and by some means the mind goes, yep, I’m not secure once more.

(19:44)
Otherwise you stroll by a barking canine, who’s actually scary on the way in which to soccer apply, and the mind goes, yep, not secure once more. After which it, it’s mainly placing all these recollections collectively right into a cluster and saying, right here’s my proof of idea, I’m not secure. After which something that triggers that trauma, reminiscence community, lights up all of that cluster of experiences, after which the nervous system responds to that. So oftentimes a, a consumer who is available in has a number of clusters, so that they have one cluster proving I’m not secure. Perhaps one other cluster saying I’m unlovable, one other cluster saying I don’t belong, or no matter it’s. Like it may be any number of these. And so if we have now that lay of the land, that may be actually useful for us realizing, okay, this, this, I’m not secure is linked to those panic signs, or this, I’m not lovable, is linked to those attachment type of anxious attachment sort methods, regardless of the case could be.

(20:44)
However then we have now this different wonderful reminiscence community that every one of us have. It’s only for a few of us, it’s, it’s extra nicely developed than others. And it’s the adaptive data community. It’s all these experiences of, of, you understand, studying or of being cherished or of being restored not directly, or having, you understand, a way of belonging as a part of a tradition or a part of a, you understand, a part of a non secular apply or a part of a, of a non secular group. These, these finest associates or these, these animals that simply love us it doesn’t matter what. All of that. And I consider these as bushes. So so mainly there’s, there’s one thing that planted the tree by way of the, these darkish trauma reminiscence networks. There’s an occasion that planted the tree, after which the tree simply grew up and obtained larger with all of these different occasions that obtained clustered collectively.

(21:37)
Effectively, this, this gentle tree, this adaptive data tree of data additionally has, has a means through which it was planted. That’s that early attachment system. In order that’s the trunk of that tree. And a few individuals have a spindly trunk, which suggests they’re far more prone to the wind blowing after which being taken off steadiness. After which in addition they can have numerous ranges of levels through which that adaptive data community has been constructed out by all of those different optimistic and experiences of resilience, experiences of success, experiences of overcoming all that jazz, so, so lengthy option to, to put the inspiration for the reply to your query is mainly therapies, I feel do considered one of two issues. One is they assist improve that gentle tree of adaptive data. So whenever you’re studying meditation, whenever you’re studying how to consider the optimistic, deal with what’s true about you, all of that, you’re actually enhancing and specializing in that adaptive data reminiscence community.

(22:45)
And, and so there’s a lot that’s optimistic and highly effective about a variety of the therapies on the market that try this. Then there’s one other, form of sort of remedy like cognitive behavioral, the place what it’s doing is it’s, it’s permitting you to problem that activation of that unfavorable reminiscence community and saying, yeah, however bear in mind it’s not true. And so that you try this, that handbook shifting via type of logic your self into the sunshine tree. However that’s actually onerous and may really feel like gaslighting actually, whenever you’re like, however my nervous system says the trauma is what’s true. Not this different logic stuff that I’d know in my head.

Betty Rocker (23:28):

That simply is a part of what I assume I’ve been listening to from individuals generally after they say, you understand, speak remedy or sure kinds of speak remedy, I really feel like I’m simply rehashing these uncomfortable issues time and again with out actually getting wherever. I’m simply spinning my wheels.

Susie Morgan (23:41):

That’s one other sort of remedy. So there may be, there are kinds of remedy the place the concept is that if we have now perception or if we speak sufficient via it, you then’ll get higher. So which means you sit in the dead of night hint, you sit in these trauma reminiscence networks throughout trauma, the, throughout your remedy, and that’s purported to theoretically make you’re feeling higher, however it doesn’t really essentially try this as a result of all you’re doing is type of dwelling within the darkness. And so individuals are like, nicely, I don’t wanna go to my previous. I wanna do these different issues. Effectively, that’s nice. Now all you’re doing is manually shifting into the lightness. So what we’re on the lookout for is one thing that truly reconsolidate the reminiscence really shifts the, the, the, the training that’s occurred within the nervous system. And EMDR shouldn’t be the one present on the town that may try this. There are different therapies that truly may be efficient with reminiscence. Reconsolidation, EMDR remedy is only one the place we do get constant outcomes with that when it’s executed correctly. And in order that’s, yeah.

Betty Rocker (24:42):

That’s, that’s the R and the EMDR, the reprocessing half. Sure. Yeah, that’s the place the combination occurs. So I’ll share somewhat bit, that, you understand, however my listeners don’t. Once I first began doing EMDR remedy with Susie, it’s been a number of years now since we did this nice work collectively, and we spent a few years doing it. I bear in mind at first I used to be like, nicely, when are we, when will we get to do the EMDR? Like, when are we gonna get to that half? And what was actually wonderful is her strategy was so considerate. She was, she went in and realized the place now I do know the lingo, in fact I didn’t on the time, my clusters, she was on the lookout for the place are the, the networks right here that I have to work with. She deliberately realized the panorama of this thoughts that she was then going to be going into with like her fantastic devices and serving to to reprocess.

(25:38)
Proper? So like, that was such an necessary a part of that work. I feel that, that should you don’t find out about it, you, you don’t know what you don’t know, proper? However I feel it’s so necessary. And there’ve been, and there have been additionally issues that you simply did at first that I’ve by no means forgotten. You gave me instruments. I bear in mind among the wonderful instruments that you simply gave me to assist me have a way of safety, to have a way of security. After which in fact, the precise apply of EMDR, which is so wonderful. It’s so tough to do the work generally, however it’s additionally so necessary. It’s like, you understand, you guys, like whenever you do a extremely robust exercise, , such as you gotta put within the work to get the outcome. Nevertheless it felt like there was a real end result coming whilst I used to be going via the tough features of it.

(26:26)
And it, it, I used to attempt to clarify what it was love to do, to be an a, a affected person going via E-M-D-R, should you guys have seen the film “Inside Out,” that is like the easiest way that I can clarify it. There’s this place that, that they go what’s, which is just like the reminiscence financial institution, and it’s all of those glowing balls of sunshine that they’ve simply stacked up and stacked up and stacked up. And so I all the time pictured just like the trauma recollections as like these like gnarly black balls of sunshine that, that have been like saved within the reminiscence financial institution, that, that have been really infecting all the opposite recollections. As a result of that’s what occurs together with your, with the issues which can be what we name maladaptive. Right. Is that proper terminology? Yeah. So the maladaptive recollections that didn’t really get processed accurately at first, these are like now infecting the remainder of your recollections.

(27:14)
And so you may have these reactions to issues that you could’t actually management. It’s like bugs in your working system in order for you like a pc terminology for it. And it was like going via doing the work of the EMDR, you’re like altering the material again to one thing easy. We will return to that rug instance the place the rug was all bunched up and we’re like smoothing out the rug. And now when one thing comes up that was an actual set off or one thing that may, you’d have like this unavoidable response that you simply had no management over, it’s not there, it’s simply not even a set off. You continue to have the reminiscence of the factor, however it’s not lit up anymore. And I feel that was so profound for me of just like the expertise of EMDR, of like how a lot it modified the material of my precise being.

(27:58)
Like I felt like I turned just like the model of myself. I used to be all the time meant to be via going via that work. And so it makes a variety of sense. This care that’s taken all through the method, particularly at first, as a result of I’ve had associates inform me – oh why, when – I’ve despatched associates to EMDR they usually’re like why when do I get to do the EMDR? I’m like, let your therapist do these actually necessary items in the beginning as a result of they’re going to make it easier to get a greater end in the long run. So I feel it’s fascinating the way it

Susie Morgan (28:32):

Works. There’s so many items that you simply simply mentioned which can be so necessary that I wanna nearly give the again of the home understanding of a bit. Please, please. The, the why. In order that authentic query you requested of like, nicely, how have you learnt should you’re in the proper place together with your therapist? Yeah. And I feel there’s that bigger query of like, are you doing a remedy that truly modifications the way in which the nervous system is holding the recollections? And, so that you’re re transforming that complete factor so that you routinely reply in another way. It’s not that handbook management, however whenever you’re looking for out an EMDR therapist, whether or not or not they take this, this primary like part of the work actually significantly is a extremely massive element for deciding whether or not or not you’re in the proper place.

Betty Rocker (29:22):

Mm.

Susie Morgan (29:22):

And oftentimes, this isn’t the fault of the therapist, it’s the fault of the way it’s historically been skilled the place actually it’s such as you do form of like this, this fast, this fast intro and you then simply soar into, to processing trauma recollections. However that’s the place we have now individuals having actually unhealthy experiences. And the primary motive is as a result of individuals, individuals aren’t essentially prepared for that but. And or the, the therapist doesn’t essentially have the, the readiness of getting an excellent remedy plan in place as a way to know why we’re gonna begin right here and go there and go there. And so after I was doing all of these early, form of items of labor with you, it’s, it’s really there, it’s twofold. One is, I really, I’m, I’m purposefully mapping, I’m purposefully supplying you with instruments that matter to your expertise of being within the work, however I’m additionally expecting very, very key features that point out your mind is prepared to do that, that your nervous system can do sure issues.

(30:28)
And so the whole lot I’m doing has a twin function. It’s each getting you prepared, constructing that readiness if I have to do extra of one thing, but additionally seeing what’s there and seeing whether or not or not that that further form of prep work is prepared. After which the opposite piece, and that is, that is simply because I wish to point out it, that piece about that grownup, like strongest wisest self being there for little you, that’s the core key characteristic to attachment restore. It’s growing out that grownup self to provide little you what nobody else has been capable of give us totally and to attract from the fashions of those that have possibly in items and issues like that. However finally, repairing the attachment system is realizing deep down that you simply’ve obtained you and that you simply’ve

Betty Rocker (31:19):

Acquired you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so Effectively, that’s so nicely mentioned. And, and this work is so profound as a result of I feel, our tradition shouldn’t be alone in being one which has a variety of addictive compulsive sort of points, however it actually has so many, and, and I feel this should be one thing that presents in, in your apply so typically is dependancy sort of labor. Mm-hmm . Like so many individuals, I imply, we have now dependancy to purchasing, to alcohol, to medicine, to intercourse, to, how, I don’t know, so many various issues. So I might think about that EMDR is admittedly helpful in supporting the discount of addictive habits. And and the way does it try this particularly? I,

Susie Morgan (32:07):

Effectively, one of the vital latest form of necessary items of form of connecting the dots that’s been made got here via the ACEs examine. And I’m undecided should you or your listeners are conversant in it, however it’s the hostile Childhood Experiences examine. And like EMDR, it’s really been round for nearly as a lot time, however it didn’t actually get any press till extra just lately. However it’s a very fundamental examine that has simply been executed on monumental hoards of individuals at this level. And it’s even, replicated by the, the CDC at this level. So we’re capable of see it’s true throughout populations that early childhood hostile experiences, even when they occur simply as soon as, they create a vulnerability within the nervous system to develop psychological well being points, to develop bodily well being points and to develop addictions. And so, and it’s exponentially extra highly effective than anybody would ever suppose.

(33:03)
And so addictions is one thing that we very a lot can see. Early childhood trauma actually potentiates that vulnerability to dependancy later. And what’s attention-grabbing by way of EMDR remedy and trauma reminiscence networks and all of that’s this concept that dependancy has actually two elements which can be happening with reminiscence networks. One is the trauma is a driver, in order that that ache goes to drive you to the factor that eases the ache. The opposite factor although, is the pull of the dependancy. And you’ll even have maladaptively linked optimistic recollections which can be the, the important thing to the mind persevering with to hunt the excessive or the necessity being met by this addictive habits or substance, even when there’s tons and tons of penalties, or should you by no means obtain that prime to that diploma. Once more,

Betty Rocker (33:58):

I nearly perceive what you imply by optimistic maladaptive. It’s nearly prefer it, are you able to simply make clear that somewhat bit extra? Yeah,

Susie Morgan (34:06):

Yeah, completely. So the instance I realized from the one that I first realized this from, was an instance of the, you understand, a somewhat, somewhat boy who had an abusive father. And his dad was actually, actually into enjoying playing cards, was actually into poker. And and in a while, this man has now’s now presenting in remedy as a result of he has a playing dependancy. He’s misplaced his home, he’s misplaced his household, he’s misplaced the whole lot. So we’re gonna assume, okay, nicely, he realized about, he realized about playing from little, in order that’s simply what he grew as much as do, proper? Like, it’s that easy, however it’s not, the place it really solidified in his mind was, so bear in mind he has this trauma of neglect and, and abuse from his dad. Effectively, sooner or later, you understand, one of many guys isn’t there for the poker sport. So dad invitations his son to the poker desk that’s the place his mind hastily felt cherished. His mind hastily felt seen and included and seen by his dad. And fireworks go off within the mind. And it’s like that soldering of one thing the place it’s similar to, Ooh, poker equals I’m cherished, I’m lovable. And so from then on, doesn’t matter how a lot he loses, doesn’t matter all the implications, the mind doesn’t even like take note of any of that information. It’s coming, however it doesn’t matter. He retains looking for that have to be met on the poker desk at no matter value.

Betty Rocker (35:45):

Acquired it. Acquired it. That’s a fantastic instance, proper? That made a lot sense. You’ll be able to see how addictions can type of so many differing kinds due to the complexity of that layer, these layers collectively. Like that’s, and that should be very onerous to unwind for individuals due to what a strong urge that’s, like at a deep core degree to be cherished, to be belong. These are deep human wants that all of us have, and after they’re not met, after we’re youthful, after which they’ve these layers on prime of them, and we’re simply on the market making an attempt to be grownups, coping with life and all of our many duties and, and repeating outdated patterns time and again and never understanding why, as an example. So who wants EMDR? Who could be an excellent candidate for EMDR, would you say? I imply, we’ve talked about a variety of issues, however I feel lots of people listening are figuring out sure issues in what we’re speaking about. So let’s simply make it plain and easy. Like who could be an excellent candidate?

Susie Morgan (36:46):

I suppose there’s somebody on the market who wouldn’t, however I haven’t met them. And, I imply, there are these individuals who actually grew up with that basically sturdy early attachment expertise. Their wants have been met. And, and I’ve seen these shoppers are available as a result of they’d one single actually unhealthy t like massive T trauma, and but their stuff resolves like that. Like that’s the place you see this like magic occur. Prefer it’s, it may be a matter of two classes and one thing horrific, similar to is is totally reprocessed by the nervous system

Betty Rocker (37:24):

As a result of they’ve a sturdy and safe attachment model and safety in themselves to begin with. Their basis is, is admittedly sturdy. After which from there, therapeutic is less complicated, I assume you’d say, proper?

Susie Morgan (37:37):

Sure. So that they’re confronted with traumas, they’re confronted with various things, and their mind is like, oh, I’ve obtained this. And it, and it, it, you understand, it takes that, that adaptive data reminiscence community and simply wraps it round and it’s similar to, yep. Like I realized from that. Now it’s over and off you go. Hmm. So there are individuals on the market who’re like that, they’re simply extra uncommon.

(38:00)
Hmm. The remainder of us , and I say that together with myself, have much more vulnerability to those various things. And so when somebody is saying, you understand, I’ve simply all the time been anxious, or I’ve simply all the time had these bouts of melancholy, that type of factor, or this self-doubt, this self-confidence concern the place I’m not reaching for that subsequent degree at work, or I’m not stepping out of, you understand, like I, I do know I ought to have the ability to do that, however I, however I’m, I’m stopping myself. I’m, I’m insecure, or I’m, you understand, repeating these relationship patterns or that type of factor. Mm-hmm. All of this stuff are issues that make you an excellent candidate to step into an EMDR therapist’s workplace. Mm mm Then the distinction is whether or not or not that EMDR therapist has eyes to see deal with you. Have they executed enough coaching in having the ability to actually, actually like, have that curiosity to, to take a look at what, what’s all this linked to? The place did this, this studying happen that’s now left you in a sample of, you understand, responding on this means? What are all these reminiscence networks? And is your mind able to do the precise trauma reminiscence reprocessing, or do we have to do a bunch of fro entrance loading in order that we are able to get there? It’s oftentimes not the case that somebody can’t do EMDR remedy. It simply means somebody would possibly have to do some extra refined issues to get their mind prepared for it.

Betty Rocker (39:30):

You will have some fairly wonderful assets for individuals at totally different ranges relating to EMDR. One factor that you’ve got is, I bear in mind the EMDR readiness course, which helps individuals like me determine whether or not we’re prepared or how, clarify that for me, should you don’t thoughts.

Susie Morgan (39:50):

So this course has been round for quite a lot of years, and it’s really, I might attribute, the triggering of making that course to you really, oh, cease . As a result of sooner or later you sat down with me and also you mentioned, Susie, I’m referring individuals out to EMDR remedy on a regular basis now, they usually’re not getting, from their remedy course of what I’m getting with you. And at that time, it induced me to self-reflect and say, am I really doing one thing in another way? Hmm. And, and I discovered I used to be, and it wasn’t simply because I’m good, it was often because I used to be actually hungry to be taught and insecure. Truly, my very own insecurities have been in there the place I used to be like, I have to be taught extra, I have to be taught extra. I have to be taught extra. So I had, I had gone to so many various trainings by so many various specialists within the area, however then my, my power actually is synthesizing issues collectively, curating and synthesizing these supplies right into a system basically.

(40:48)
And so over time, there’s been a technique that I’ve developed that began with that course and actually beginning to actually like, form of, conceptualize it and make it extra concrete that’s now developed out into some broader coaching applications that I can clarify. However, however the readiness course remains to be accessible. It’s one thing that you are able to do by yourself. It’s nearly like a, a digital like workbook. And it takes you thru the readiness course of. So a variety of the steps that you simply and I did collectively by way of these, these instruments and people, these expertise that you simply developed in the beginning, beginning to actually map out these trauma reminiscence networks to be able to actually do some work by yourself and determine does this EMDR remedy factor is smart for me? Hmm. The opposite factor is that may be executed alongside a therapist, of their course of with you.

(41:40)
For lots of people, it’s actually useful to have the assist of a therapist whereas they’re doing these processes. And the primary module of that course says takes you thru some questionnaire that say like, ought to, do you have to do that alone or not? Hmm. And so it, it might probably make it easier to suppose via that course of. The opposite factor that’s now accessible, that’s additionally on the self-help web page of my web site, which is precisionemdr.com. So should you go to the self-help web page, you’ll see two various things. One is that readiness course, however one can also be a free 45 minute course that truly explains this, this tree idea that we’ve been speaking about. Cool. So that you’re capable of visualize the trauma reminiscence networks, that adaptive data gentle tree of data, in order that should you begin EMDR remedy, you’re moving into actually understanding that complete formulation of it. And it goes extra into what processing appears like, that type of factor and what’s taking place within the mind throughout that. So, so that’s free to simply check out, there’s, no strings. Yeah.

Betty Rocker (42:45):

That’s a tremendous present. And what a tremendous useful resource as nicely. After which I feel you might be additionally now, such as you’ve mentioned, you’ve developed your methodology, you’re now coaching different therapists at totally different, totally different ranges from the graduate degree to all the way in which to individuals who’ve been training for a very long time. Is that what you have been telling me? That’s wonderful. What, what does that contain?

Susie Morgan (43:08):

So there’s two main items. One is we have now an EMDRIA accredited fundamental coaching, which they’re the bigwigs. They, they, they take you thru a reasonably rigorous course of whenever you’re growing a program to say, does it, you understand, verify all of the packing containers. And so we checked all of the packing containers and what was actually thrilling is, I used to be accredited to have the ability to, to essentially use all of this readiness and the goal sequencing, which is the, the why you do, which, which trauma reminiscence first, that type of factor. In addition to all of those attachment items into our fundamental coaching program. After which we have now additionally a sophisticated a set of programs. So it’s really a complete of 33 hours, half one and half two. However half one really goes via all of this readiness and, and fills within the gaps of what hasn’t been there in a variety of that conventional coaching that the majority therapists have gone via. After which half two goes into all of this fancy footwork round how will we restore the attachment system? How will we tackle these addictions? And that sparkle that these maladaptively linked recollections can have and all of that. So it’s, it’s a extremely sturdy superior course that folks can undergo

Betty Rocker (44:20):

A lot to know, so necessary to be a well-trained practitioner and for us as individuals looking for remedy to know as a lot as we are able to about this in order that we are able to go into it eyes open, looking for this care. And in addition, you understand, discern being discerning, I assume, about what we’re gonna obtain. I feel that’s, that’s so necessary. Effectively, you’ve shared your, web site with us and we are able to additionally observe you on social media, right. Wanna say your, your deal with,

Susie Morgan (44:55):

It’s @PrecisionEMDR. So it’s precisionEMDR all over the place. So whether or not that’s the web site or the deal with on Instagram or Fb, that’s, that’s the place you could find me and discover out what we’re doing. ’trigger I, it’s not simply me, however I even have gathered an outstanding workforce of specialists. It’s really one of many distinctive items of our program is everybody who’s a guide on our coaching workforce is an skilled in EMDR, in addition to oftentimes a specialty space or integration with one other remedy mannequin. So, so we are able to all be discovered there and it’s, it’s actually hopefully going to be an increasing number of a sturdy useful resource for referral sources and all of that for individuals everywhere in the, everywhere in the nation. As a result of we have now people who find themselves going via our trainings who’re from all over.

Betty Rocker (45:42):

That’s fantastic and fantastic to consider all the people who find themselves probably looking for EMDR or possibly didn’t understand how helpful EMDR could possibly be for them. And now we’ll have an extra useful resource to return to for details about it, for looking for a practitioner for it, or practitioner looking for extra coaching for it. It’s actually fantastic what you might be creating. And thanks for all of the work that you simply do on this world to make it a greater place. We respect you a lot. So thanks. Thanks a lot for approaching and speaking to us right now and sharing all of this actually invaluable data and insights. And thanks for the whole lot you’ve executed for me as nicely. Like, I might not be this model of the Betty Rocker with out you and your entire nice work. So all of you guys listening, I’m so glad that you simply had an opportunity to fulfill Susie, ’trigger she’s simply unbelievable and I hope you look her up and search for her work. And Susie, is there any, like, final phrases, something you wanna go away with us that I didn’t ask or something you wanna say?

Susie Morgan (46:37):

Actually, it’s simply wanting to specific my gratefulness for the chance to return in right here and discuss this and, and the, the, the platform that you’re utilizing throughout the board to assist, particularly girls of their well being on all features of issues. And EMDR is one thing that, such as you mentioned, it’s a buzzword on the market. Individuals discuss it, however they oftentimes don’t know sufficient about it to grasp the way it may really hook up with them, the way it may really be, actually possibly much more powerfully executed if it’s one thing that they’d a, you understand, eh, expertise with earlier than. Issues like that. So I’m simply actually grateful that this was necessary to you to do and, and simply thanks for having me.

Betty Rocker (47:22):

Yay. Effectively, we sit up for speaking to you once more very quickly. And, thanks guys a lot for listening. Yow will discover all the hyperlinks and assets over on the present notes web page for this podcast episode, in addition to Susie’s hyperlinks that she’s already shared. So sit up for speaking to you once more. Until subsequent time, I’m Betty Rocker, and you might be so superior, so flawsome and wonderful.